September/October 2004
Interviewing would-be employees is an essential part of any scrap manager’s duties. Here’s how to conduct such interviews effectively and legally.
By Robert L. Reid
Interviewing prospective employees can be a challenging, confusing, and potentially catastrophic part of any manager’s duties, especially if the company ends up hiring the wrong person or gets embroiled in a discrimination lawsuit over not hiring someone. Finding people who are willing to work under the often-difficult conditions of scrap recycling—such as the early hours, weekend shifts, and demanding physical labor performed outdoors in all kinds of weather—makes the effort even tougher.
But interviewing job applicants is also an unavoidable and essential part of doing business, for no matter how much your company prides itself on low turnover, some employees will eventually leave or retire, or your business will simply grow to the point of requiring a larger workforce. That’s why it’s important for scrap plant managers to understand how to conduct job interviews effectively and legally.
Keep in mind, though, that “interviewing is an art, not a science,” says one scrap processor. There are few hard and fast rules—even certain legal restrictions differ from city to city or state to state. With that in mind, here’s some advice from recyclers and experts on what to do—and what not to do—when interviewing would-be employees.
Learning the Law
Given the possibility of being sued, it’s critical for anyone who interviews applicants to understand what sorts of questions are prohibited by local, state, and federal employment laws. Unfortunately, such prohibitions aren’t always clear-cut. For instance, at least one experienced person contacted for this article suggested that no question is by itself illegal—you simply need a strong reason to ask about certain things or else you risk a discrimination lawsuit.
Gary Marx of Marx & Lieberman (Washington, D.C.)—an attorney who’s been advising ReMA on employment and labor issues for about a decade—disagrees with that view. He warns that “there are questions you cannot ask, and it is illegal to ask them.” There might not be a penalty for asking an illegal question—if, for instance, you can prove that you wouldn’t have hired the person anyway for other job-related reasons—but certain questions remain illegal, and your company could face an injunction against asking similar questions in future interviews.
On the federal level, such prohibited questions include inquiries about the applicant’s race, color, sex, religion, national origin, birthplace, age, disabilities, marital/family status, and arrest record, among others. At the city and state levels, illegal questions can also cover topics ranging from sexual orientation to smoking. So it’s important to stay up-to-date on the laws that apply to your location. This, however, is complicated by the fact that the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission doesn’t seem to have a definitive list of prohibited questions. State employment or human relations commissions, however, often do provide lists of at least some unlawful inquiries, so be sure to check with the appropriate state agencies, Marx says.
To stay out of trouble, the key is to keep all questions job-related and “focus on what you really want to know,” suggests Jill Ellingson, assistant professor of management and human resources in the Fisher College of Business at The Ohio State University (Columbus, Ohio). For instance, don’t ask if the person is a U.S. citizen when what you really want to know is whether they’re able to work legally in the United States, she says. Instead, ask: “Are you authorized to work in the United States?” That question covers noncitizens who have a work visa while avoiding the potential of discriminating based on national origin if you specify citizenship, she explains.
Likewise, do not ask an applicant about his or her child-care responsibilities or religious affiliation when what you really want to know is whether the person can ever work on weekends. So ask the question directly: “Can you fulfill work obligations on the weekend?”
If having access to a vehicle is a requirement of the job—say, for a salesperson who needs to visit customers—then simply ask whether the applicant has access to a vehicle, Ellingson says. “Don’t ask, ‘Do you own a car?’ That’s irrelevant. They can use their grandmother’s car to get to work if that’s convenient for them,” she notes.
Questions about military service should also be avoided, such as what sort of discharge the applicant received or whether the applicant might be recalled to active duty anytime soon.
Arrest records are definitely off-limits, says Gary Marx. You can ask about criminal convictions, but arrests have been deemed discriminatory against minorities since minorities historically were arrested at disproportionately higher rates than other groups.
Facing a Catch-22
Disabilities are another restricted topic, Marx says, especially anything covered by the Ameri-cans With Disabilities Act. Employers can ask about the applicant’s ability to fulfill job requirements if there’s an obvious disability, such as blindness or hearing impairment, he points out. But they can’t ask blanket questions about whether the applicant has a disability, nor can they ask any question that could lead someone to disclose a disability.
Instead of asking about disabilities, simply give applicants a list of job requirements and ask if they can meet those duties, Marx says. But be sure to spell out everything that’s essential to the job. If, for instance, a receptionist is often sent to the bank to make deposits for the company, but the list of requirements doesn’t spell that out, the company could get in trouble if it refuses to hire a receptionist candidate who can’t drive because of, say, epilepsy, explains Marx.
Sometimes the applicant will voluntarily reveal information about him- or herself that you, the interviewer, can’t legally explore. If that happens, Marx advises, do not ask any follow-up questions. As Ellingson adds, “the onus for conducting a legally acceptable interview is on the shoulders of the employer. It’s not the applicant’s responsibility to know which topics are appropriate and which aren’t. ... So if an applicant wanders into an area that’s not appropriate, it’s the organization’s responsibility to actively manage the interview and direct the applicant to more acceptable topics.”
Though some scrap processors say that the legal restrictions placed on employers don’t hinder them at all—since much of the prohibited information isn’t job-related—others say it would be helpful to know an applicant’s workers’ compensation record as well as certain other facts from the person’s past. This leads to a Catch-22 for employers, Marx concedes.
Imagine, for instance, that you interview an applicant who has a history of violence related to a mental disability, but who hasn’t had any problems recently, or someone who was arrested several times for violent behavior but never convicted, Marx says. If you refuse to hire him or her based on this arrest record or this mental disability—which now seems to be under control—you could face a discrimination charge, he notes. But if you do hire the applicant and the person loses control and assaults someone, you could be liable for negligent hiring.
To help prevent such problems, Marx recommends having applicants take a psychological test—if your state allows such tests—that cover issues ranging from the applicant’s honesty and reliability to how well he or she interacts with coworkers or accepts authority.
Making the Right Choice
Once you make sure you’re conducting a legal interview, you obviously want to make it an effective one as well—to learn what you need to know about an applicant’s knowledge, skills, and abilities to decide who is the best person to hire. If you need a torchcutter, for instance, does the applicant really know how to cut metal? Bob Toth, human resources manager at Annaco Inc. (Akron, Ohio)—and a certified HR professional who has used a cutting torch himself—likes to ask applicants about the specifics of the job, such as what types of material they’ve torchcut at previous jobs, or how many pounds an hour they can cut, or the relative merits of one torch or tip versus another.
Al Ivens is another certified HR professional as well as director of human resources, safety, and environmental compliance for Macon Iron & Paper Stock Co. Inc. (Macon, Ga.) and its affiliated companies. When he needs a new driver or mechanic, he often asks his firm’s transportation manager or maintenance manager to participate in the interview to help determine if the applicant really has the knowledge or experience he or she claims. Then, since applicants for most hourly positions are initially hired as temporary workers, they go through the equivalent of a three-month-long “rolling interview” before being hired permanently.
Having more than one person interview the applicant—either separately or jointly—helps eliminate any bias for or against the applicant that a lone interviewer might possess, says Jill Ellingson. She also recommends giving the applicants a “realistic work preview,” which means having the applicant actually perform certain tasks that would be part of the job.
That’s what Ivens does when, say, he needs a new qualified welder. First, he talks to the applicants, then he gives them a battery of tests, ranging from a written test—“to see if they understand the lingo”—to a hands-on test that gives them about 20 minutes to demonstrate their welding skills.
Likewise, would-be drivers and crane operators at OmniSource Corp. (Fort Wayne, Ind.) are asked to demonstrate their skills on the road or in the yard, says Ben Eisbart, executive vice president, administration. Just because an applicant has a commercial driver’s license, for instance, doesn’t mean he or she “drives a truck the way we want them to, which is properly and safely,” he notes. Likewise, just because an applicant has operated a crane somewhere else doesn’t mean “the person operates the crane in the way we want them to in terms of safety, attention to detail, or maintenance,” says Eisbart.
Applicants for sales or supervisory positions in the scrap industry often face more theoretical interview questions. A potential salesperson could be asked how he or she might seek new customers, while a supervisory candidate might be asked about times he or she disciplined employees. Ivens, for example, wants a sales-rep applicant to be friendly and articulate, but he also hopes the person is “a bit of a computer geek” because that means he or she understands the latest technologies that will help find and track sales leads and maintain good records.
Ivens also wants someone who “tells me they read a lot.” He doesn’t care what the applicant reads. “Just the fact that they’re going down the path and improving their skills and their mind will help us,” he asserts.
Assessing Character
Another key area to explore is the applicant’s character, such as his or her work ethic, temperament, people skills, communication skills, and other factors. “There are differences among people that say something about how well they work, how much they care about what they’re doing, the quality of their work,” explains John Seres, president of Sadler Group Ltd. (Oakbrook Terrace, Ill.), who has given seminars and consulted on hiring for scrap processors such as OmniSource and scrap consumers such as Nucor Corp.
Seres points to critical traits such as, “Do they show up for work on time? Do they give that little bit of effort that’s sometimes the distinguishing factor between someone who really cares about what they’re doing and someone for whom it’s just a job?”
A strong work ethic is especially critical in the demanding environment of scrap recycling where “it can be 120 degrees outside, with the sun bouncing off the metal, or the wind chill can be 30 below zero,” explains Ben Eisbart. Even qualified people can lose interest “because they’re not in an air-conditioned building in the summer, a heated building in the winter,” adds Al Ivens.
A line of questioning that everyone seems to ask is why applicants left their previous job or why they want to leave their current job? “We observe what patterns they present,” Eisbart says. “We clearly look at how many jobs they’ve had in a specific period of time, because if someone is a job-hopper there’s very little for us to believe they won’t hop from our spot.”
Likewise, Ivens can understand when someone leaves a particular job because he or she isn’t happy at that workplace, but he’s definitely looking for team players. “If someone has left four jobs because they’ve been dissatisfied, I’m probably not going to put them on here,” Ivens says.
For John Seres, the key to being a good interviewer is being a good listener. His rule of thumb is to make sure you, the interviewer, don’t talk more than 20 percent of the time. “If you have good interviewing skills, which are basically good listening skills, you can interview the person in a way to get them talking—and the more you get the interviewee talking, the more you’re likely to learn about them,” he explains.
So try to avoid questions that can be answered with a simple yes or no. “You want to ask questions that, in effect, get people to start talking, and as they talk, talk, talk, they will begin to tell you about themselves,” Seres says. That’s why one question he likes to ask concerns the applicant’s upbringing. “How they view their background, their origins, can be extremely important and can begin to fill in the picture as to what motivates them,” he says.
Asking follow-up questions is also a critical part of interviewing, Seres notes. The goal is to “ask those follow-up questions in such a normal and unobtrusive way so that the individual doesn’t even realize they’re being asked follow-up questions.” The best examples are simply repeating the last statement the applicant made and waiting for him or her to elaborate, which usually happens, Seres says. If not, then simply say, “What did you mean by that?” or “Tell me more about that.”
Looking and Listening
Employers can also learn a great deal about job applicants through indirect clues such as their body language and the tone of their voice. Keep in mind, though, that everyone has a unique body language, so spend the first part of an interview trying to determine what the clues are for the person in front of you, says Seres. “What may be something revealing for one person may mean nothing with the next person,” he warns.
For instance, Bob Toth feels that fidgety, nervous applicants might not be giving him truthful answers, though he adds that you need to be sure the applicant isn’t simply squirming from the stress of being interviewed per se. Listen to the applicant’s voice as he or she answers questions, Seres says, since changes in their tone of voice can indicate what interests them, what “makes them ‘come alive’ as they talk about it.”
Though Ben Eisbart doesn’t focus too much on body language, he does feel that strong eye contact and a winning personality are key attributes for a salesperson who needs to sell himself or herself and the company to potential customers. Conversely, having “a handshake so weak you think you just grabbed a fish” is probably “not a good trait” for someone applying for a sales position, Eisbart says.
When an applicant looks away during an interview, Al Ivens likes to ask, “Is there something you just don’t remember, or did you just think of something you neglected to tell me?” In one such case, an applicant admitted to having been arrested years previously in a car in which the driver—but not the applicant—was caught with marijuana. Ivens, who has worked in a police narcotics unit, knew that it’s customary to charge all occupants of such a car with possession. He told the applicant that he might need a different set of friends but that the incident didn’t disqualify him from the job.
Be sure to warn applicants that their criminal backgrounds, references, and even credit history will be checked as part of the overall interviewing process, sources note, especially since you need to get their permission to request some of that information.
Avoiding Common Errors
Good interviewers need the humility to recognize their own limitations, to realize that they might hold biases and can make errors, Jill Ellingson says. Unfortunately, she has run across interviewers who think they can make quick decisions based largely on their gut reactions to applicants, with little or no structure to the interviewing process and, at best, an after-the-fact approach to linking interview questions to actual job responsibilities. In such cases, however, the interviewer is “making hiring decisions based on nothing more than a guess,” she says.
Whether it’s the seemingly well-qualified candidate who doesn’t stand up well to closer scrutiny or the problematic person who actually has great potential, job applicants are a mystery that the interviewer needs to solve. Just “make sure you get the whole story or as complete a story as you can,” says Al Ivens, recalling his example of the explainable marijuana charge from one applicant’s past. “That’s what the interviewing process is all about.”
Putting Interviewees at Ease
Job interviews are stressful, but there are techniques that can make the job applicant feel more comfortable during the process. At Texas Recycling/Surplus Inc. (Dallas), Joel Litman, president, tries to put interviewees at ease by asking about hobbies or accomplishments they listed on the application that “are bright spots for them, things they might be proud of.” This helps applicants relax and see that the process isn’t so intimidating, Litman believes. Annaco Inc.’s Bob Toth also likes asking about hobbies—especially if the employee likes to work on cars “because we’re kind of related to that industry.”
When language is a barrier to communication during an interview, some processors call on existing employees to translate. OmniSource has a Spanish-fluent “Latin American liaison” ready to help interview applicants at several company sites where her services might be needed, as well as other bilingual employees who can help, notes Ben Eisbart. Similarly, Texas Recycling offers a Spanish-language version of its job application and will sometimes have its Spanish-fluent office manager or plant manager sit in during interviews, Litman notes. Having someone other than the company owner asking questions also helps put applicants at ease, he says.
Robert L. Reid is managing editor of Scrap.
Interviewing would-be employees is an essential part of any scrap manager’s duties. Here’s how to conduct such interviews effectively and legally.